The meeting is now open.
Dear colleagues,
The next item of business this morning is the debate on the report by Mrs Carmen LEYTE, on behalf of the Social, Health and Sustainable Development Committee, on "Combating vaccine-preventable diseases through quality service and demystification of anti-vaccine rhetoric" (Doc. 15542).
Madam Rapporteur, you have 7 minutes to present your report and 5 minutes to reply to the speakers.
You have the floor.
Thank you, President.
Distinguished parliamentarians,
The issue of vaccination has aroused great attention as a result of the Covid-19 pandemic, but it has also brought to light rejection, which demonstrates that our global health safety requires improvements.
It is very troubling that immunisation rates are dropping around the world. The right to health is a fundamental part of our human rights and our human dignity, as enshrined in both the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, and in the European Social Charter.
The member states have a responsibility to adopt the requisite measures to achieve full exercise of this right through prevention, treatment and control of epidemic, endemic, professional, and other diseases.
Vaccination is a routine medical intervention. It continues to be the safest and most effective means of protecting against many infectious diseases.
According to the World Health Organization (WHO), it prevents between two and three million deaths a year. It is calculated that an improvement in global vaccine coverage could save another million and a half.
Now seeing that 20 million lives have been saved by the Covid-19 vaccine, broadening access to immunisation is crucial to achieving the UN's Sustainable Development Goals.
Vaccination reduces health costs and the loss of productivity of the patient and the person that has to replace them.
Vaccines not only avoid disease and death as a consequence of communicable diseases, but they also contribute to creating broader benefits in economic and social development.
Ever since the introduction of the first vaccines, notable success and achievement have been made in the field of public health. Nonetheless, suboptimal vaccination rates are at present one of the most critical problems of public health, given that the number of Europeans vaccinated against a number of infectious diseases is currently declining, as is demonstrated by the resurgence of vaccine-preventable diseases, even though it has been demonstrated that high immunisation rates against Covid-19 were among the most useful tools for tackling the pandemic and restoring a degree of normality in our lives after the Covid-19 tsunami.
When we talk about vaccine hesitancy, we refer to delays in or rejection of immunisation, although the vaccination services are available.
Hesitancy is usually context-specific and it is affected by what people think and feel about vaccine preventable diseases, issues of safety, scheduling, social influence, and anti-vaxx activism.
Studies show that Europe has a higher percentage of negative opinions regarding the importance, safety and effectiveness of vaccines. Indeed, seven of the 10 countries with the worst opinion regarding the safety of vaccines come from our continent, Europe.
Furthermore, doubts about vaccines appear to be more prevalent among the youth, the younger generations.
Older generations have more trust in vaccines because they have witnessed the consequences of outbreaks of contagious diseases, and how they have been combatted through vaccination.
Confidence in the health authorities and health systems are also essential to increase vaccination rates.
Therefore, any negative event in the health sector may contribute to increasing hesitancy or doubts about vaccines.
In some environments, it is assumed that vaccine hesitancy is the cause of scant acceptance. But a more detailed study has revealed the great importance of other issues, such as accessibility, availability and quality of services.
It is important to differentiate among these factors so that our strategies may be geared to different problems or barriers, and therefore contribute to closing gaps and increasing acceptance of vaccines.
As I have recommended in my report, member States should make full use of immunisation programmes, thanks to WHO Europe, which offers a model for segmentation of the population, diagnosis of the underlying causes of low vaccination in sub-groups where there is hesitancy, as well as adaptation of interventions to address underlying factors.
We must improve knowledge regarding population health, co-operating with the education sector, listening to the concerns which people have about vaccines, and guaranteeing access to reliable and trustworthy information for the generations of today and tomorrow.
Health staff must dedicate more time to parents as soon as possible after the birth of the child, to speak to them about the concerns they have about vaccination. This would allow families to be better informed of the risks of not vaccinating their children, and it would probably improve trust in the public health authorities, and would lead to better vaccination rates. It is also very important for our member States to build sound health systems and accord universal public healthcare attention to their populations through the analysis of the European Centre for Parliamentary Research and Documentation (ECPRD) questionnaire, which was distributed for the preparation of this report; it became clear that the fact that vaccines are not covered by state health assistance to a large extent contributes to a tangible barrier to guaranteeing better acceptance of vaccines.
Lastly, I would like to express my concern about the polarisation and politicisation in the public debate on vaccines in recent years.
The Covid-19 pandemic has demonstrated how public health is not confined to national borders, but it is an international issue. Dissemination of deliberately misleading and false information, especially on the internet, poses a grave threat to public health.
On the national level, member States should invest in research on digital behaviour and step up their efforts to disseminate truthful information on social media platforms.
On the international level, States should come together to study policies and rules which will make platforms and other players responsible when they benefit from dissemination of dangerous and fake information.
I hope this report will be a useful step to tackle the doubts and barriers about vaccines, and ensure better immunisation rates in Europe and around the world.
I wish to thank WHO Europe and the secretaries Ms Yulia Pererva and Ms Anita Gholami for their valuable assistance, as well as the technicians and interpreters who facilitate communication.
I would also like to thank the Chair and the members of the Committee on Social Affairs, Health and Sustainable Development for their faith in me, for the preparation of this report.
Thank you, and I wish you all good health.
Thank you very much, Madam LEYTE.
Now we open the debate and first in the debate I call Mr Bob De BRABANDERE from the Netherlands and he speaks on behalf of the European Conservatives Group and Democratic Alliance.
Mr Bob De BRABANDERE, you have the floor.
Netherlands, EC/DA, Spokesperson for the group
10:17:02
Thank you, Mister Chairman.
When I see the title of this debate, it looks like I am in my former professional days in a medical congress.
Whilst, on the other hand, we get repetition of yesterday's issue on misinformation. It is not that I am saying it is not good because, in fact, I really promote basic vaccinations but I still have some comments and the basis is that trust is the base of acceptance. Basic vaccines are proven [to be] fine and give great results, so they should, really, continue to be promoted. But you know why there is mistrust and misinformation these days? That is because the experimental Covid-19 vaccines, as you called them also in your speech, are not well documented for the public domain. Of course, they are well documented for the scientific domain but the public is not aware about the contrast and the pluses. So you get rumours and they do not resolve this as we discussed yesterday.
In censorship or marketing campaigns, the use of explanations or words by governments needs to improve. This example, when we talk about Covid-19 vaccines, we talked about booster vaccines. But, in fact, they were not boosters, they were just another of the same. And why? Because the fact [is that] the mode of action of the previous vaccination was expired. It is not bad about it but use the right language because the people are getting upset, may get upset, and that is not what we need in a pandemia. The mode of action was short-time, as I said. And that is also important to talk about vaccines that are really of use.
The World Health Organisation has the same approach as we have today in the Commission. And politics, I think, should really listen to science and look at the pros and cons of the medicines and, in this case, about vaccinations. Prevention, by the way, is the key and that is not per se the vaccination. When we take Covid-19 and it is still running up these days, no handshaking is important; it is important to wear masks and to use ventilation. So building your immune system is very important but for the weaker persons, it should, of course, be vaccination.
So I say no obligation for vaccinations, it is in the free will of the people, very good information and respect for human rights.
Thank you, Mister Chairman.
Thank you Mr Bob van PAREREN.
The next speaker is Mr Jean-Pierre GRIN from Switzerland, who is speaking on behalf of the Group of Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe.
Mr GRIN, you have the floor.
Switzerland, ALDE, Spokesperson for the group
10:20:18
Thank you, Mister President.
Dear Colleagues,
As mentioned in the excellent report by our colleague Ms Carmen LEYTE, epidemics and contagious diseases can spread rapidly across countries and regions. Vaccination must be promoted as an international public good and know-how must be shared. This is the opinion of the ALDE group, which emphasises individual responsibility, respect for institutions and equality of all towards health.
During the flu pandemic, there has never been so much talk about vaccination, especially from the anti-vaccinationists who have been vocal in public rallies and on social networks. Vaccination remains, for our group, the most adequate and effective method to protect against many infectious diseases. Smallpox has been banished from our planet by vaccination, as well as polio and many others.
During the Covid-19 pandemic, without the rapid discovery of vaccines of various kinds, one cannot imagine what the consequences would have been on human populations. But the public debate on vaccines became highly polarised and politicised during the pandemic. While vaccination should not be made mandatory, in our group's view is that it should be strongly recommended and encouraged.
To ensure the highest possible vaccination rates, all member States should, first and foremost, conduct awareness and information campaigns while improving the quality of health services, in order to create an environment conducive to vaccination, which should be free of charge to allow everyone access.
A lack of information about the need for vaccination and doubts about the safety of vaccination are two reasons given by those who routinely refuse vaccination, and perhaps television commercials showing the needle poking the patient can also be a deterrent to those sensitive to needles.
This report should encourage all countries to promote non-partisan continuity of immunisation policies by redoubling their efforts to combat misinformation and especially misinformation about vaccines through transparent communication based on credible data. This will allow sufficient vaccination coverage of the population for the good of all and also to protect the weakest among us if this pandemic continues.
These are also the dearest wishes of our ALDE group, which thanks our colleague Ms Carmen LEYTE for this complete and relevant report.
Thank you for your attention.
Thank you, Mr Jean-Pierre GRIN.
Mr Andreas Sjalg UNNELAND, from Norway, on behalf of the Group of the Unified European Left.
It will be his first speech here in the Assembly.
Andreas, you have the floor.
Norway, UEL, Spokesperson for the group
10:23:39
Thank you, President.
I would like to compliment the rapporteur for her work and for such a concise and specific report.
The pandemic showed that we are not only fighting a disease that kills. We are also fighting the spread of misinformation and conspiracy theories.
As the report says clearly, vaccines are one of the inventions that have saved the most lives in human history. They represent a giant leap in medicine. Vaccines have been thoroughly tested and proven to have enormous effect. Nevertheless we now see the spread of misinformation about vaccines.
For example the measles vaccine. Here is apparently a paradox.
When a vaccine is so effective that the disease virtually disappears from society, one can be blinded to their great effect, and when conspiracies spread then the vaccination rate drops and the disease returns. This is the case with measles.
So what can we do to fight the spread of misinformation and ensure that people get vaccinated?
It is a bad idea to be tempted to use more force and forcibly vaccinate children against their parents' wishes. More force will only create a bigger gap and mistrust.
What we need to work on is building trust in society. Everything is connected with everything so it must be said, and the evidence is clear. Societies with a smaller wealth inequality are societies with a greater degree of trust.
Trust must also be created with strict standards for the development of vaccines that give people the confidence that the technology is good and safe.
We need to have good and accessible information about the vaccine and its effect. Here we believe that states have a responsibility to ensure transparency. A responsibility to publish information and actively drive myth-busting.
It is not enough to just have numbers and facts in reports. It must be an active effort to reach out to people and present facts in a way that they can understand.
To secure a high degree of vaccination it’s necessary also to lift restrictions arising from patents and intellectual property rights and promote vaccination as an international public good.
Vaccine development should not be driven by profit, but rather the common good. The goal must be that more people can access vaccines faster and cheaper.
We thank you for the report and the important work to ensure the legitimacy of vaccines.
Thank you very much, Mister Andreas Sjalg UNNELAND.
The next speaker in our debate is Mr Pierre-Alain FRIDEZ, from Switzerland, on behalf of the Group of Socialists, Democrats and Greens.
You have the floor.
Switzerland, SOC, Spokesperson for the group
10:26:42
Thank you, Mister President.
Ladies and Gentlemen,
Dear Colleagues,
Vaccination is undeniably a weapon in the fight against many infectious diseases. For some, it is only a short step to cling to the dogma of the infallibility of vaccines, the royal road to answering all the challenges and questions related to these problems.
Yes, vaccines are useful and, for the most part, effective. Yet, they are often the subject of controversy.
I am a physician, I practice vaccinations, and yet I have some reservations about the dogma of infallibility. The best way to resist a virus or other infection is still to be healthy with access to good food and hygiene. Historically, tuberculosis has not been virtually eradicated in our countries thanks to the BCG vaccine, but by improving people's living conditions and hygiene. We know that BCG only protects against tuberculous meningitis.
A vaccine is never 100% effective. The immunity conferred by a vaccine is less strong and less long-lasting than by natural disease. Vaccinating infants at 2, 4 and 6 months of age with six or seven diseases each time, when their immune systems are not yet mature, raises questions. They can, for the most part, be vaccinated a little later. I'll stop here.
Vaccines, for the most part, are useful, and the report rightly emphasises the importance of having sufficient vaccine coverage to limit the circulation of the virus. What is also right, for a doctor, is to vaccinate in a targeted way, tailored to the person in front of him.
The Covid-19 pandemic opened the Pandora's box on the issue of vaccines, and we heard everything: discovery too fast, no hindsight, RNA, DNA, the great confusion about the risk of changing the genetic capital. We even heard that we could inject electronic chips with the vaccine. Fake news has invaded social networks. The messenger RNA technology is old, well controlled and proven, but it is scary. The unknown is scary and people are fond of sensational news and conspiracy theories.
In the face of these doubts, dear colleagues, which are sometimes legitimate, we must not rest on rigid certainties based on the famous dogma of the infallibility of vaccines. Medicine is not a completely exact science.
There is only one solution in the face of doubt: listening, constant popularisation, information, a solid doctor-patient relationship. No ukases, no rejection, but once again, listening, dialogue, always and always, and care tailored to each and every one, and above all, no compulsory vaccinations.
Thank you for your attention.
Thank you, Mr Pierre-Alain FRIDEZ.
The floor is now given to Mr Bernard FOURNIER.
France, EPP/CD, Spokesperson for the group
10:29:48
Thank you, Mr. President.
Dear colleagues,
Vaccination has represented a considerable advance in the medical field and prevents 2 to 3 million deaths per year.
However, we are now seeing a resurgence of certain infectious diseases. This is particularly true of measles, for which the number of cases increased by 79% in the first two months of 2022 compared to the same period in 2021.
At the same time, it should be remembered that the epidemic of Covid-19 is not over and that most of the people who die from this disease today are not vaccinated.
Faced with this situation, the public authorities must promote vaccination. To do so, they must face two main challenges: to fight against the reluctance of the population towards vaccination and to promote access to it.
First of all, despite the proven benefits of vaccination and the risks associated with the resurgence of infectious diseases, there is a growing reluctance to vaccinate. False information spread on social networks and scandals involving the health sector contribute to this reluctance. As a result, the public debate on vaccines has become more polarised and politicised with the development of more numerous and organised "anti-vax" groups, particularly in opposition to the Covid-19 vaccine.
Public policies must take this situation into account, in particular, by promoting reliable and transparent information on the safety and efficacy of vaccines.
In this regard, I would like to acknowledge the important role played by the European Directorate for the Quality of Medicines and Health Care of the Council of Europe, in the framework of the European Pharmacopoeia.
The dissemination of false information must also be combated by means of appropriate regulation. This refers to other debates we have had in the Assembly, but it is fundamental.
At the same time, the states must promote the development of vaccination. For this to happen, vaccination must be free and accessible throughout a state's territory. Infrastructure must therefore be developed to allow this vaccination.
The right to health is a fundamental element of human rights and of our conception of human dignity, enshrined in the European Social Charter. This right to health cannot be guaranteed without appropriate and pro-active vaccination strategies.
Thank you for your attention.
United Kingdom, EC/DA, President of the Assembly
10:32:49
Thank you, Mister Bernard FOURNIER.
We move on to the list of speakers.
The first speaker is Ms Arusyak JULHAKYAN, from Armenia.
Is she here?
It doesn't look like it.
Then we move on to Ms Nigar ARPADARAI.
Dear colleagues,
Vaccines played a pivotal role in improving public health. They saved lives and protected societies. Vaccines are the achievement of scientific methods, work and sacrifice of scientists and health practitioners. They are part of society's public health mechanism. They have already been some anti-vaccine sentiments on the road but traditionally it was a marginal voice, a small portion of society. The level of vaccine hesitancy in the case of Covid-19 vaccinations is extremely high and we talk about a global trend.
So how did it happen? The main reason is many instances of mismanagement of the process of mandating and promotion of Covid-19 vaccines. Vaccines are science. Science is a method based on critical thinking, on admittance of mistakes and looking for new paths. Sometimes vaccines work — sometimes they do not. Honest mistakes happen and science and scientists are always strong enough to admit and look for better solutions.
This is how medicine progressed. However, in the administration and promotion of Covid-19 vaccines, instead of pure science and public health, many people saw the corporate greed of the pharma industry. Their fight for the luxurious piece of markets. Corporate greed is natural, but did we see enough action on behalf of relevant organisations to curb and contain it? We saw bureaucrats who, instead of honest and weighted decisions based on public interest and safety, were mandating various doubtful decisions. All in order to avert personal responsibility for complex decisions and take personal risks for possible mistakes.
We saw vaccine egoism and rich countries buying out of stocks of medicines globally, leaving poor countries undersupplied. We have seen censorship in the media and academia, favouring particular points of view on vaccines. We saw statistical manipulation and withholding of certain facts from the public; all of this was nominally done with the public interest in mind. One of the arguments was that alternative or contradicting ideas feed vaccine hesitancy but, in fact, censorship itself is anti-scientific and is feeding hesitancy. Science dies where censorship starts. And actions of some international organisations, social media and news outlets, which were aimed at filtering and censoring certain points of view that were supposed to reduce vaccine hesitancy, became, in fact, a major factor in feeding and increasing vaccine hesitancy.
People may not have total access to statistics and data but people are good at spotting manipulations. If we want to win over the vaccine hesitancy, if we want the vaccines to work, we must return the whole conversation into the realm of science. We have to bring back critical thinking into the discussion over the efficiency and safety of vaccines. If a vaccine does not do the job, it should be admitted publicly and a new vaccine must be produced. We have to drastically reduce the role of bureaucrats in the decision-making on this and bring back epidemiologists and doctors.
There should be less national egoism and more international co-operation on this and our Assembly's job is not to marginalise hesitant citizens, it is to bring back common sense and accountability into the discussion.
Thank you.
United Kingdom, EC/DA, President of the Assembly
10:36:32
Thank you very much.
Now we can go to Ms Nerea AHEDO.
Ah, she is there! I am sorry, I couldn't see you.
I first want to thank Ms Carmen LEYTE for her report.
I'm not going to repeat things that have been so well expressed already.
Vaccines seem to have become fashionable now that we've had a pandemic, but the fact is that they've been safe and effective for many years. I think they have been the best tool in public health for a quite a while before the Covid-19 pandemic.
They are a personal shield, but they are also a collective shield. Above all, they save lives. That means, there is a need to guarantee universal access to vaccination and increase coverage, but across the whole planet.
Let's not forget that, across the whole world, this pandemic has taught us that viruses know no borders.
I come from the Basque Country, which has a very high vaccination rate, but it is not the case in the whole of Europe. I think that the fundamental reason for high coverage in the robust countries is citizens' high trust in public health system.
One of the things we must do is bolster those health systems and bolster trust.
I want to differentiate between two issues across this report. On one hand, we are talking about certain parts of the world where the issue is not negationism. The real problem is access to vaccines or unavailability of vaccines and weak public health systems. It is a global responsibility of each and every one of us to strengthen those health systems in all the countries of the world.
On the other hand, you have this question of attitudes and speech, which surface and have surfaced more during the pandemic, with anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists without any scientific evidence and, on many occasions, lacking truth. Although they became more prevalent during the pandemic, they existed before, and now they are leading to the reduction in coverage and the resurgence of diseases that were virtually eradicated.
I think that we need to say that this anti-vaccine debate, if you will allow me to say so, is a First-World problem. I say "First-World" because if you look at the slogans of Doctors Without Borders, they say that "there is something worse than fear of vaccines, fear of not having a vaccine". So, when you have groups calling for non-vaccination, that is a debate of the rich, and we need to address it.
Lastly, we usually discuss but we never come to a conclusion, and at some point we need to resolve. On the one hand, we have the right to health, and on the other, you have the individual right to get vaccinated or not. They are two rights that need to be brought together at some point in time. We need to see how crucial that linkage is when we are talking about children.
United Kingdom, EC/DA, President of the Assembly
10:39:50
And now we go to Mr Sorin-Titus MUNCACIU.
He was just away from his seat, but he's back now.
Thank you very much, Mr Chairman.
Being a physician myself, I had all the childhood disease vaccinations.
But this type of vaccines were developed in many years, there were a lot of experiments, and there is still a need for the parents to consent for child vaccination. But I'm talking about the other type of vaccinations that are experimental, and the need to follow the 20th-century jurisprudence when it comes to experimentation.
In other words, if a vaccine is experimental, it has to be and has to follow the Nuremberg code. There are 10 codes that establish the rights of the people who are going to accept or not accept a vaccination as an experiment.
Now, for this standpoint I believe that there is a very important point and that point is informal consent. Now if informal consent is crucial, it has to be very extensive.
In other words, the person should be aware of the facts and the risks they are going to undertake when they agree with the experimental vaccination.
Moreover, if the vaccine is under the emergency use authorisation doesn't change anything. It's still an experimental vaccination. And that's the reason why, right now, there is a lot of debate when it comes to what is compulsory, what is mandatory vaccination. And I can see some of the states and even our European friends adopted the green certificate.
Now, I have a problem with that because somehow there is a degree of compulsory when it comes to vaccinations. Therefore, I think we have to come back over and over to the Nuremberg codes and they should be properly followed.
Thank you very much.
United Kingdom, EC/DA, President of the Assembly
10:42:45
Thank you very much.
Now we go to Ms Fiona O´Loughlin. Is she here?
No?
OK, then it's Ms Salma ZAHID.
Fellow parliamentarians and esteemed colleagues,
Thank you for the opportunity to debate this important topic with you all today. I have been looking forward to doing some anti-vaccine myth-busting. Countering the disinformation regarding vaccines, especially vaccines for COVID-19, is vital to addressing vaccine hesitancy. But if we are myth-busting, then we must also bust the myth that our healthcare systems are not also responsible for some of this hesitancy.
In Canada, at least one poll has shown vaccine hesitancy among Indigenous people is two times the rate of that among white Canadians. Given the number of studies that have confirmed the existence of systemic racism against Indigenous people in Canadian healthcare systems, how can we blame Indigenous people who are hesitant? How can healthcare systems ask for trust when that trust is so often broken?
In one study conducted in British Columbia, 84% of Indigenous people described personal experiences of racism and discrimination that discouraged them from seeking necessary care. In a similar study in Toronto, 27% of the urban Indigenous population reported unmet health needs, more than twice the national average.
When such outcomes are combined with the legacy of colonial policies, it can create not only hesitancy, but potentially also a higher risk of contracting COVID-19 due to factors such as greater levels of overcrowded housing, homelessness, and incarceration.
Given these dynamics, it would be natural to expect that vaccination rates for Indigenous peoples would lag behind rates in the rest of the country.
Fortunately, as of early June 2022, the rate of fully vaccinated people in Indigenous communities was 89%, well ahead of the rates in Canada as a whole and Europe. While government programs to encourage vaccination may have helped achieve this outcome, credit must also go largely to Indigenous communities themselves.
Indigenous organisations, such as the National Association of Friendship Centres, which provide services to Indigenous peoples in urban areas, responded quickly to the outbreak of COVID-19. Using a wrap-around service model that provided a holistic response to the pandemic. Friendship Centres were best equipped to help community members in need. These efforts included a Take Action in COVID social media campaign specifically designed to dispel myths, demonstrate the safety and efficacy of vaccines, and to encourage urban Indigenous people to get the jab.
Such initiatives demonstrate the importance of broad-based health services that go beyond the traditional clinics and hospitals. Organisations such as Friendship Centres may not be healthcare institutions in the traditional sense but can often provide services to underserved communities in ways clinics and hospitals cannot.
Thank you.
United Kingdom, EC/DA, President of the Assembly
10:46:20
Thank you very much indeed.
Now, Ms Minna REIJONEN.
Thank you.
I come from Finland. I have previously worked as a pharmacist, and worked in a pharmacy.
Pharmacy and healthcare staff have a lot to do with vaccines.
Vaccinations according to the vaccination programme are free of charge in Finland. Vaccinations are given at health care facilities. In addition, you can buy vaccines for tourism, for example, from a pharmacy.
It is important that vaccines and the right up-to-date information on vaccines are available.
There were also nasty phenomena in Finland during Covid-19 vaccinations. Vague information was disseminated on social media, which may include rumours, gossip, and assumptions.
The best way to prevent rumours is to spread the right information. I think it is important to invest in making the right information available. This will be even more important in the future. Maybe European countries could work together on this.
This is the fourth round of vaccines in Finland.
During Covid-19 vaccinations, there was more discussion about the possibility that pharmacies could handle vaccinations. Pharmacies are trusted. For example, Covid-19 vaccinations and tourist vaccinations could be provided through pharmacies.
Finland is undergoing a major healthcare reform. There is a shortage of resources and money. There are up to 822 pharmacies in Finland. There are pharmacies close to everyone, the health centre is not. The pharmacies have highly trained staff.
In Finland, it would be easy to arrange more training for pharmacists so that vaccinations could be given there.
In pharmacies in Finland, attention is paid to counselling and it is of high quality and based on information.
Thank you.
United Kingdom, EC/DA, President of the Assembly
10:49:00
Thank you very much.
Now I move to Sir Christopher CHOPE.
Mister President, it is a pleasure to serve under your Chairmanship.
Paragraph 13.1.3 of the draft resolution rightly calls on Council of Europe countries to ensure that they have, and I quote, "effective systems for monitoring potential adverse effects of vaccines and independent compensation programmes are in place".
Sadly, in respect of Covid-19 vaccines that is not happening. There has been a tendency to cover up the potential adverse effects of those vaccines and few countries have actually got effective compensation programmes yet in place. The United Kingdom has a vaccine damage payment scheme but that denies that it is a compensation scheme. It requires proof of causation, it is capped at £120 000 and is only available to those suffering more than 60% disability. It is also been subject to unacceptable bureaucracy and delay, and the first compensation awards were only made of this very week.
Mister President, tens of thousands of people have suffered death or serious injury as a result of Covid-19 vaccines. Yet governments have been in denial about these facts, resorting to obfuscation, dissembling and, in some cases, downright lies about the vaccines being absolutely safe for everyone and those concerns have been echoed in this debate by Mr Pierre-Alain FRIDEZ and by Ms Nigar ARPADARAI.
An example from the United Kingdom: last week I asked the Secretary of State for Health whether he accepted that some people have died as a direct result of Covid-19 vaccines. He avoided giving a straight answer to that question and he said words to the effect that vaccines do not always deliver the desired results for some people. Well, that was underestimated was it not, because as an understatement, we know that as have coroners have concluded in following detailed inquests that people have died as a result of Covid-19 vaccines and indeed one of the cases resolved this week is an award of £120 000 to somebody's widow and that person was widowed because her husband died of Covid-19 vaccine damage.
And so that sort of denial is actually undermining the state of vaccine confidence because people are not fools. They know from their friends that those who did the right thing and got vaccinated are often now suffering permanent life-changing conditions and that is why this report is so important because it should be emphasising the way in which vaccine hesitancy can be countered by ensuring that there is open and transparent debate and proper compensation.
United Kingdom, EC/DA, President of the Assembly
10:52:18
Thank you very much.
And now our last speaker from the floor and this is Mr Éctor Jaime RAMÍREZ BARBA.
Is he here? It doesn't look like it.
No.
Then we have completed the list of speakers and I call on Ms Carmen LEYTE as the rapporteur to reply to the debate.
You have 5 minutes.
Thank you, President.
I wish to thank all of the speakers who have taken the floor in this debate, because when you listen it enriches the debate, and some very interesting things have been said.
I think many speakers have agreed with the text and philosophy of the report.
While it is true that in the Chamber there have also been some misunderstandings, for example, saying that Covid-19 vaccines are experimental. Of course they aren't; they have been tested and authorised by the European Medicines Agency and other authorities.
The fact that it's been possible to manufacture them in a record-breaking time is precisely due to all of the global knowledge that has been accumulated on vaccines. The whole world worked hand in hand to bring about that success.
It is a success story, not a failure.
That, too, is one of the myths which is being bandied around. They have been tested, authorised, and they have shown their efficacy.
Today it is becoming clear from the media that they have prevented the death of some 20 million people.
I'd also like to point out, as some other speakers have said, that indeed as regards communicable diseases, the most effective tool we have is vaccines. Of course, all the associated health and hygiene measures, which we were already taught as children, at least in the Western world – handwashing, being careful when we're sick, not have contact with other people we might infect – many of these measures are in everyone's minds, and we've been brought up with.
This report is not just about the Covid-19 vaccine; covid-19 is part of this report. We're talking about vaccines in general.
There have been several reports in this Chamber on Covid-19 and here the crucial point is hesitancy, doubts in society vis-à-vis vaccination, and not just vaccination against Covid-19, but about other communicable diseases such as measles, chickenpox and others. It has been shown that these are the best tools for dealing with these problems. It doesn't mean that we cannot get the disease again.
Coming back to Covid-19, we all know there are people who have had it three or four times. But the way in which our organism reacts to disease is very different when vaccination has been performed, very often avoiding the risk of death.
You also the problem of what is called Long Covid, and the symptomatology of Covid-19. I believe we have an effective tool on our hands to deal with it. Of course, we need to use it alongside other health and hygiene measures that are very important, and not forget that as my colleague Ms Nerea AHEDO said, viruses travel freely: they don't need a passport.
Therefore, I stress this in my report: we need universal coverage. Vaccines must reach the entire world. Access must be universal.
Another effective tool is the bolstering of public health systems.
I come from Spain, we have a national health service which is universal, fair, unified and high-quality. I think that has helped a great deal in building trust amongst people in the health services, which has meant that Spain along with others, where many of the other speakers come from, it has allowed us in our country to achieve our goals.
Trust in the system is fundamental, in primary healthcare, which is the first medical link in the chain, which is the closest to the citizens. That proximity means we can more easily explain the best way of combating diseases through vaccination, and through better health care services, and of course with treatments and medicines when required.
I think it has been an interesting debate. I thank even those who clearly disagree with parts of the report, but I thank each and every one for your contributions.
Thank you.
United Kingdom, EC/DA, President of the Assembly
10:58:10
Thank you very much indeed.
Now we move to Ms Olena KHOMENKO, who is online, to see if she wishes to comment.
If you do, you have 3 minutes.
Ukraine, EC/DA, Second Vice-Chairperson of the Committee on Social Affairs, Health and Sustainable Development
10:58:26
Dear colleagues,
I would like to thank the rapporteur Ms Carmen LEYTE for her excellent and timely report.
Like her, they, our Committee, is convinced that addressing suboptimal vaccination, vaccination coverage, is a matter of human rights protection, and should be priority for the Council of Europe members states.
As such, member states must must take urgent action and acknowledge public responsibility for lowering barriers to vaccine uptake in full respect of the principles of human rights, democracy, and the rule of law.
Strategies to comprehensively address inadequate immunisation coverage should address the root causes of this problem.
As pointed out by the rapporteur, reasons for suboptimal vaccine uptake are context-specific. They derive broadly and include social, economic, and cultural barriers, lack of accessibility, inadequate quality of services and additives to vaccination.
The Committee also agrees that more needs to be done at national and international levels to fight misinformation and disinformation regarding [audio inaudible] and build up health literacy.
Our Committee fully supports the rapporteur and agrees that qualitative vaccination services must be available and accessible to all people within the state's jurisdiction. This includes the provision of adequate vaccine supplies, free vaccinations for all, and a better follow-up from the healthcare system.
Moreover, when supply is inadequate, the principle of equitable access to vaccines should be ensured.
As the pandemic demonstrated, our collective health is only as strong as our weakest link. That is why I would like to reiterate the rapporteur's call for strong co-operation between member states, not only on a regional level but also to ensure equitable allocation and uptake of vaccines on the international level.
Thank you for your attention.
(Undelivered speech, Rules of Procedure Art. 31.2)
President,
As a member of the Mexican delegation to this Assembly, I congratulate the Committee on Social Affairs, Health and Sustainable Development, for the proposed resolution on indecision about vaccines and their impact on Public Health.
The SARS CoV 2 pandemic revealed the serious limitations of many of our health systems, their resilience capacity was seriously questioned, many services were affected, including their vaccination programs.
As documented by the World Health Organization WHO, and the United Nations Children's Fund, UNICEF, in recent years, there has been an alarming reduction in the number of children receiving vaccines around the world. Disruptions in immunization threaten to reverse progress in reaching greater numbers of children and teenagers with an ever-expanding range of vaccines.
According to these organizations, in 2020, around 23 million children did not receive basic vaccines through routine immunization services –3.7 million more than in 2019–; official figures that reflect the interruptions in services worldwide due to COVID 19. A situation that continued in 2021 as most countries recorded declines in their childhood vaccination rates.[1]
Most of these children – up to 17 million – probably did not receive a single vaccine during the year, which exacerbates the enormous inequalities in access to vaccines and potentiates the risk of resurgence of eradicated or controlled diseases.
Unfortunately, my country ranked fifth in the world with the greatest reduction in its childhood vaccination rate, only behind countries like the Philippines, Indonesia, Pakistan and India, which had the worst setbacks.
Today, it seems that we are overcoming and controlling the pandemic, in part, thanks to advances in vaccination; however, new health challenges are beginning to appear that demand the urgent need to recover the dynamics of a proper vaccination strategies in our countries.
We need to redirect the resources and personnel that were diverted to face the pandemic, it is time to fine-tune and create new alliances to involve all sectors of society in the immunization processes to protect our entire population and save a greater number of lives.
We need to strengthen our information and epidemiological surveillance systems; strategically plan vaccination processes and campaigns; as well as strengthening our biological production or acquisition systems and the necessary infrastructure for their distribution and conservation.
We need to take advantage of the use of new technologies to enhance the scope of health interventions and actions, the implementation of an electronic vaccination record, which enables its portability and interoperability of its information for a strict and timely follow-up of immunization processes.
It is necessary to address the recent cases of measles and hepatitis and the lags in vaccination rates, to eliminate the risk of a resurgence of diseases that have already been controlled or eradicated.
We must reposition the importance of vaccines in society as they allow us to save lives.
United Kingdom, EC/DA, President of the Assembly
11:00:35
Thank you very much indeed.
Now that means that we have reached the end of the debate and the debate is now closed.
The Committee on Social Affairs, Health and Sustainable Development has presented a draft resolution [Doc. 15542] to which no amendments have been tabled.
We will now proceed to vote on the draft resolution contained in Doc. 15542.
The vote is now open.
The vote is now closed.
And can we see the results, please?
There we are.
The resolution has been approved by 27 votes for, 2 against, and 9 abstentions, so the draft resolution in document 15542 is adopted.
Thank you very much.
And now we will have just a couple of minutes of break while we change chairman before we move on to the free debate.
Thank you.
Montenegro, NR, President of the Assembly
11:03:54
Dear colleagues, we now come to the free debate.
I remind members that this debate is for topics not already on the Agenda agreed on Monday morning.
Speaking time will be limited to 3 minutes.
I call first Mr Bjarni JÓNSSON. You have 3 minutes, and please start by identifying the topic you wish to raise.
Mister Bjarni JÓNSSON, you have the floor.
Iceland, UEL, Spokesperson for the group
11:04:18
Thank you, Madam.
The negative impacts of climate change, looking at ecosystems, biodiversity, and human communities at global and regional levels are fast deteriorating.
Where climate hazards interact, creating severe vulnerability, climate and weather extremes are increasingly driving migration in all regions. Climate change is contributing to humanitarian crises around the world, and climate injustice.
This should not come as news to us, but it was underlined in the latest IPCC report, which shows greenhouse gas emissions continue to rise. According to the report, maintaining the resilience of biodiversity and functions of ecosystems at a global level depends on effective and sensible conservation of up to 50% of the Earth’s land, freshwater and ocean areas. It is apparent that current plans to address climate change are not ambitious enough to limit warming to 1.5°C above pre-industrial levels – a threshold scientists believe is necessary to avoid even more catastrophic impacts.
If global warming exceeds 1.5°C many human and natural systems are at risk. Energy transition to green options is key in this regard and it leads to the energy security and energy independence of Europe that is being called for so strongly now.
Further, climate change and war are jointly severely threatening the food security adding to climate injustice.
Madam President,
It is of utmost importance that the Assembly uses the newly established Network of Contact Parliamentarians for a Healthy Environment to raise this issue within the Assembly and the Council of Europe.
As we need to take on the unfolding tragedy in Ukraine caused by the horrific invasion of Russian forces, with both strength and wisdom, we not only need to secure peace for Europe for the times to come but also keep peace and unity to resolve the deadly threats to the planet due to climate change.
Montenegro, NR, President of the Assembly
11:06:40
Thank you, Mister Bjarni JÓNSSON.
Next on our list is Mr Bob van PAREREN.
You have the floor.
Netherlands, EC/DA, Spokesperson for the group
11:06:48
Thank you, Mister Chair.
It is a free debate, so I want to bring up some some points about what has happened this week.
I felt very bad about this debate we had yesterday about the United Kingdom. It looked as if this country was in a way doing such bad things that I thought, is this not overreacting to the situation?
There are more important things to discuss; what I really recommend to be discussed in this debate in this Hemicycle are two situations of abuses of human rights in the Netherlands.
There's an urgent situation now; there are people in the so-called "allowance affair" in the Netherlands. The tax department has ruined the lives of parents and children based on racism, prejudice and discrimination. And as a consequence, many had to leave their homes, whole families without homes now, and children were taken from their parents. It is a complete disaster; it is an emotional big boom in the Netherlands. It should have the attention of the human rights organisation, as we are here in Strasbourg.
The other point of "abuse" of human rights in the Netherlands is climate hysteria. Of course we think that the milieu should really be better, and we can do a lot about that, but it must not be hysteria. In our country, in the Netherlands, it leads to farmers who have to stop their businesses, their life's work, whose successors can't continue the work their parents have done for so long.
Farmers are quite important not only for our country, in the Netherlands, but also for Europe because of the fact that a lot of food from the Netherlands is exported worldwide, and especially also in Europe.
Based on the climate rules there are restrictions on Holland that are 100 to 200 times stronger than in our neighbouring countries, Belgium and Germany. That is strange and unacceptable for the people.
Especially now, when Ukraine is in this terrible situation with the Russian invasion and terror, food is also restricted from that side. So I think, Mister Chair, this is important to bring up.
I'd like to close with the following. We had a proposal in this meeting this week from Ukrainian delegates to have a separate Ukraine session on the situation there. This really needs to be discussed here; I really recommend following that in our organisation.
Thank you very much.
Montenegro, NR, President of the Assembly
11:09:48
Thank you.
The next speaker on our list is Mr Eduard AGHAJANYAN.
Mister Eduard AGHAJANYAN, you have the floor.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Dear Colleagues,
On 13 September 2021, this Assembly adopted a resolution where amongst other things it stated, and I quote:
"Both Azerbaijan and Armenia have binding obligations to repatriate prisoners of war and release civilian prisoners without delay after the secession of active hostilities."
"Considers that the clear intention of Article 8 of the Trilateral Statement was the exchange of all detained persons without distinction as to the status assigned by one or other of the parties."
"Calls on the Azerbaijani authorities to release all remaining captives and return them to Armenia without further delay."
Dear Colleagues,
It is a fact that the Armenian side has fully abided to its obligation in this matter by returning all prisoners of war and other captives without any precondition.
In the same resolution, Armenia was to hand all the land mines to Azerbaijan, to avoid any further casualties derived from this issue, which the Armenian side has fulfilled by 100%. We did this because we regard these as purely humanitarian causes which cannot, and should not, become subject to bargain.
Whereas after almost a year from the adoption of this resolution, Azerbaijan still keeps at least 38 prisoners of war as hostages to gain whatever political advantage during the ongoing peace negotiations with Armenia.
Dear Friends,
I just want to remind you that this appalling and deplorable act of treating human lives as bargaining chips is carried out in the 21st century by a member State of the Council of Europe.
I would like to remind you that the conditions for membership of the Council of Europe are pluralistic democracy, the rule of law, and respect for human rights. Only those countries which fulfil these criteria can accede.
I will leave on to you, to your subjective assessment, the degree of pluralistic democracy of a country which has been ruled by members of the same family for over 30 years and will most probably continue the beautiful tradition for another 30 years.
However, my belief is that the root cause of this impudent posture lies in Azerbaijan's historical record of total neglect of the judgment delivered by the European Court of Human Rights. Because the latter is the only abiding mechanism which is supposed to guarantee, at least, one of the three conditions of membership in this organisation. That is respect of human rights.
Ladies and Gentlemen,
I would like to draw your attention to the following shameful statistics.
Throughout the last 10 years 97% of judgments delivered by the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) have not been executed by Azerbaijan. When I say shameful, I mean it for this Council, because it shows that this organisation should have taken proper action in either introducing new mechanisms of enforcement, or by simply denying Azerbaijan membership of this organisation. After all, if there is zero effort to comply to any of the three conditions of membership, can anyone tell why Azerbaijan is still a member of the Council of Europe?
Thank you for your attention.
Montenegro, NR, President of the Assembly
11:13:03
Thank you.
The next speaker on our list is Mr Mihail POPSOI.
Mister Mihail POPSOI, you have the floor.
Dear colleagues,
Yesterday was a historic day for the Republic of Moldova. My country was granted its candidate status in the European Union. This is, indeed, a symbolic day for many Moldovans as it is also the anniversary of Moldova's sovereignty. In times of great peril, this is a strong morale boost for our citizens. This is also a testament to the determination of the people of Moldova to live in a free democratic society.
In the year that's past, the Republic of Moldova and its people have stood up for democratic values and defeated an oligarch who was terrorising the country. In the last few years, the Moldovan people were also successful in getting rid of a pro-Russian leader who was only concerned with graft and serving the aggressor.
Also in the last few years, the Moldovan people have managed to elect the first female president in the Republic of Moldova, a pro-European strong majority in the parliament of the country, and thus, indicating that the people of the Republic of Moldova want to remain firmly anchored into the European value system, thus repudiating the aggression that is happening in our region.
The citizens of Moldova have stood together with the Ukrainian people by hosting the largest number of refugees per capita. We have opened our arms, our homes, and we have provided everything we have to our neighbours and our friends. And by supporting us in this time of great peril, the European Union is showing a tremendous sign of solidarity with Ukraine and the Republic of Moldova. And it is also a sign of repudiation of aggression. It is a strong message to the aggressor, that the European Union remains united, strong and it will remain free as long as it stands true to its values. And by granting Ukraine and the Republic of Moldova candidate status, it shows just that.
We have no illusions about the process; it will take a long time but we remain committed to all the reforms that need to be taken because, at the end of the day, these reforms are in the interest of the people of Moldova. To boost Moldovan democracy, to promote human rights, the rule of law, all this is in the interest of the Moldovan people.
So I thank you, dear colleagues, for all the support that you have granted the citizens of the Republic of Moldova in these very, very difficult times.
Thank you.
Montenegro, NR, President of the Assembly
11:16:16
Thank you.
The next speaker is Ms Nigar ARPADARAI.
You have the floor.
Thank you very much.
Dear colleagues,
I am from Azerbaijan.
Our region, the South Caucasus, has seen lots of challenges: the Armenian occupation of Azerbaijani lands affected the region and impeded development.
It deprived us of many chances during the three decades it continued, but now it's a new era.
After the occupation of Karabakh and East Zangezur regions of Azerbaijan, with the departure of Armenian occupational forces we have a new situation, new chances and new risks.
Due to the current international situation, the interruption of logistics in Eastern Europe due to the ongoing war, the South Caucasus is becoming increasingly important for the logistical connection of Central Asia to Europe.
Today it's very important to use the chances that were given to us by the new situation.
The Armenian MP has just mentioned the Trilateral Statement; I'm really happy that he remembers that they do have the obligations.
I would also like to remind that one of the clauses of the statement signed between Armenia and Azerbaijan is the obligation by Armenia to provide for an unimpeded connection between western regions of Azerbaijan and Azerbaijan's Nakhchivan exclave for people, goods and transport.
This corridor going through the Western Zangezur region is a historical connecting route uniting the Western Azerbaijani lands.
Azerbaijanis used to live there, but they were all ethnically cleansed. The names of towns and villages were changed; a total destruction of their historical heritage took place.
Zangezur, which used to unite parts of the South Caucasus, became a dividing wall for three long decades of occupation of western Azerbaijani regions by Armenia.
The opening of the Zangezur corridor is important for humanitarian purposes, but it is also a strategically important international transport route.
It would connect economies all the way from Central Asia to China, to south-eastern Europe and even the Middle East.
It would again turn the South Caucasus into a vital crossroad, a reborn Silk Road. The importance of such a corridor is difficult to overestimate, in particular in the current international situation.
Armenia, which committed to the opening of this corridor in November 2020, is however avoiding the implementation of it for more than a year and a half, using all possible pretexts and winning time.
The positive economic impact of such a corridor is obvious to all; its political importance is undoubted.
The formal commitment by Armenia is there; the people of Nakhchivan, a part of Azerbaijan who suffered from the blockade of traditional links for a long three decades are waiting.
So my questions are:
When is Armenia is going to comply?
What is the Council of Europe planning to do about it?
How long do we have to wait?
Dear colleagues,
We want to see actions, not words, but actions, as peace and sustainable development in our region will only be reached if all sides comply with their international obligations.
Thank you for your attention.
Montenegro, NR, President of the Assembly
11:19:20
Thank you. The next speaker on our list is Mr Rafael HUSEYNOV.
You have the floor.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Dear Colleagues.
There is no good war. Because any war destroys, ruins human lives and brings tears. Therefore, the wise saying of the ancient Roman philosopher Cicero expressed 21 centuries ago remains valid today that a bad peace is better than a good war.
In 2017, we witnessed an event bearing important historical and symbolic meaning. A tram line has been opened between our long-time native Strasbourg and the German city of Kehl. I confess, I welcomed this event with sorrow, which is joyful by essence. Because I am aware of this recent history. I know how fierce the battles for Strasbourg were fought. This city was either German or French. In the meantime, an impassable border guarded by border guards. Now there is a tram running from here to there. I know a lot of people who live in Strasbourg, work in the next German city.
A few days ago I was in Karabakh. I was in the beautiful city of Shusha, which is officially declared the cultural capital of Azerbaijan and historically has occupied this position.
The next time we had visited there together with the participants of a major international conference. First, we flew from Baku to Fizuli, and from there we arrived by bus to Shusha. The territories that have been occupied for 30 years have been completely destroyed, and the occupier did not set stone upon stone. Nonetheless, in a short time, such huge work has been done here that life begins to revive.
We were in Shusha, and Khankandi, another city of Azerbaijan, now inhabited by Armenians, was clearly visible from the mountains. Today Russian troops are stationed between Khankandi and Shusha. Our car was driving near the border checkpoint. The Armenians, busy with their daily lives, saw us, and we saw them. I was thinking about Strasbourg. I thought that the day would come, and soon that day would come, when there would be no peacekeepers or so-called soldiers between our city and that city. I'm not saying that the tram line will connect Shusha and Khankendi, like Strasbourg and Kehl. However, I hope that soon the peace will move forward step by step, and daily buses will come and go here and there.
Perhaps some revanchists who have not learned the lessons of recent history think differently and are driven by a desire to create new conflicts. Nevertheless, I am also positive that both Armenians and Azerbaijanis, who have felt the pain of a 30-year armed conflict and who have managed to look at the truth with a vigilant eye, yearn for and understand that there is no better choice than peace.
Dear Assembly, the day is not far off when intercity buses will be running there, between Khankendi and Shusha.
Thank you.
Montenegro, NR, President of the Assembly
11:22:34
Thank you.
The next speaker on our list is Mr Ziya ALTUNYALDIZ.
Mister Ziya ALTUNYALDIZ, you have the floor.
Dear President,
Dear colleagues,
I am going to talk about energy security. When we look at the global developments, one of the most important common problems which has come to the fore again recently is the issue of energy security.
Although energy security has been discussed for years, the problems on this issue have become increasingly multi-dimensional and complex. The Russian aggression against Ukraine has especially shown how fragile the energy market is in terms of stability of energy supply mainly due to the dependence on Russia. This situation has brought direct negative effects on the global economy, which has already deteriorated due to the pandemic. As a result, the importance of diversifying energy resources has naturally increased.
Dear colleagues,
In this respect, the most important element is the transition to green energy, which is tried to be realised at the global level with the goal of zero carbon emission in the face of climate change.
Promoting the use of renewable resources is undoubtedly one of the important strategies to ensure energy security. However, the transition to clean energy will also have major implications for economies, as well. This transition requires better planning, co-ordination and governance at the national, regional and global levels. Some of the important elements in this transition are, of course, the problems of financing and time. It will take decades and will incur a significant cost due to the new investment in infrastructure and innovation.
For this reason, countries need to maintain a balance for sustainable development.
On the other hand, the discovery of the only resources in certain geographies brings around conflicts between countries such as in the Arctic and Eastern Mediterranean regions. The resources should be an important incentive for working together, especially the long-term uncertainty of hydrocarbon resources reduces the reasons for conflict and increases the importance of co-operation.
Türkiye, as an important transition area, offers great potential to be a hub for import routes from Caucasia, Central Asia, the Middle East to Europe.
In this regard, my dear friends, I would like to remind you of the importance of the TANAP and TAP as a project of the central part of the Southern Gas Corridor to reduce the use of energy dependency on Russia. Türkiye, with its geographical position and existing infrastructure, is the most suitable transit route of Eastern Mediterranean gas to Europe.
To conclude, my dear friends, international co-operation is extremely important at the point of ensuring energy security, on the one hand, and promoting the green transformation of economies, on the other.
I thank you.
Montenegro, NR, President of the Assembly
11:26:17
Thank you.
The next speaker on our list is Mr Irakli CHIKOVANI.
Mister Irakli CHIKOVANI, you have the floor.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I would like to talk about yesterday's decision by the European Council.
The European Council has granted candidate status to two of our friendly nations, Ukraine and Moldova, and has recognised the European perspective of Georgia.
I congratulate Moldova and Ukraine on their candidacy, and of course, recognise the important step and important chapter that Georgia steps into in terms of Euro-Atlantic integration.
This is the great challenge that we have upon us.
We realise that the decision that was made is not made based on performance, but rather has its political roots defined by the aggressive war of the Russian Federation against Ukraine.
We understand that this is the momentum, and it is the geopolitical situation that determines the current situation. But I have to acknowledge that Georgia has been a top performer in every reform in every sphere. Georgia has been successful in tackling corruption. Georgia is one of the best countries in budget transparency. Georgia has the best indexes in human rights protection in ensuring the rights of the minorities.
I'm very proud that in a previous session in this Hemicycle, this was recognised by the adoption of the resolution on "The monitoring of the obligations of the accession of Georgia to the Council of Europe". That resolution clearly states that "enormous progress" has been made by Georgia during the last eight or nine years.
I have to say that Georgia never was the back-lagger in terms of reforms. It was always a champion, and remains such a champion in ensuring the European life for our citizens.
I have to underline, and you well know, all this these reforms have been undertaken while 20% of my country is occupied, while we are constantly under fear of Russian aggression, and while Georgians are kidnapped and while there is a constant barbarisation and the attempts of the annexation of Georgian territories.
We have been knocking on the European door for centuries. We will pursue this goal. This goal will be accomplished.
I'm very proud of being part of the team that has enshrined the European aspirations of Georgia in the Georgian Constitution. I'm very proud of the Georgian people, 85% of whom support European integration. But I deplore any person, or group of persons, politicians or any kind of unions that try to patronise this attitude and streamline it towards a right-wing revolt and towards chaos. This is totally unacceptable, and this is, unfortunately, what is happening in this moment back in Georgia.
I will finish soon, dear Chairman.
I have to say, we clearly have a position in Georgian politics, that we don't go into the debate with our Ukrainian colleagues when we know they are going through hardships. But the statements that were made in this hemicycle a few days ago were very unfortunate, and they insulted the modern-day exceptional philanthropist, in Georgia, Mr Bidzina Ivanishvili. While he was in politics, he was one of the first to spearheaded (the struggle against) totalitarianism and fought for the dignity and the peace of the Georgian people.
Prime Minister Garibashvili, the day before yesterday, clearly outlined what our plan is. Our plan from tomorrow is to work hard, and to make sure that every precondition there is in the European Council's decision will be met.
Once again, Georgia was the champion and will remain the champion of reforms in the European continent.
Thank you.
Montenegro, NR, President of the Assembly
11:30:30
Thank you.
The next speaker on our list is Mr Sorin-Titus MUNCACIU.
You have the floor.
Thank you, Mister Chair,
I will talk about developments at the World Health Organization.
At the 75th session of the World Health Assembly, the Biden administration proposed certain amendments to the World Health Organization International Health Regulations.
These amendments give control to the Director-General over a declaration of Public Health Emergency in any member State.
Consequently, States are deprived of their fundamental obligations in relation to the ability to detect, assess, report and respond to public health emergencies.
The proposed amendments set up an Emergency Committee, that will impose without the approval of the states, health measures that they must implement in the case of declared public emergency on their territory.
States that do not comply with this recommendation of the Director-General may be sanctioned by a number of international bodies, starting with financial, commercial, political and multinational corporations.
The approach is clearly an affront to democratic accountability and a clear challenge to human rights.
It gives decision-making power to unelected World Health Organization technocrats to decide on the health measures that the nationals of the states concerned are bound by the treaty to adopt and execute.
In our view, there is no freedom without sovereignty, and without the democratic responsibility of those elected to represent the interest of their citizens. Technocrats have no direct responsibility for the interest of these citizens.
By opening the negotiation for an international agreement on pandemic prevention, namely a pandemic treaty, the World Health Organization intends to eliminate states and their parliaments from the decision-making process when addressing the health emergency.
Subsequently, policy decisions which are legally binding are going to be made by non-elected and unaccountable technocrats.
Particular attention should be paid to the draft, because if adopted by member states, it will become the new World Health Organization constitution, which, according to Article 8, will prevail over the states' competency.
The Parliamentary Assembly should examine the situation and provide a comprehensive response to this attempt by the World Health Organization and other interested parties to displace state sovereignty.
Thank you.
Montenegro, NR, President of the Assembly
11:33:42
Thank you.
The next speaker is Mr Vladimir VARDANYAN.
You have the floor.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
It used to be said that the best way of defence is attacking somebody and unfortunately trying to keep the calm situation in this Hemicycle until now. Our Azeri colleagues are trying to attack us now. I'm obliged to answer.
I would like just to say, first of all, Madam Nigar ARPADARAI, we were, we are, and we will be open for opening all kinds of communication and transportation in our region.
This is the first, but ladies and gentlemen, international law is not just a puzzle when you are choosing the favorite pieces and saying that this is international law. International law is a single unique phenomenon, you cannot divide any part of it.
What I'm hearing now, what all of you hear now, Ms ARPADARAI said, that no, we don't need open communication, we would like to have a corridor from Azerbaijan to Nakhchivan because historically it is ours. What does that mean under the UN Charter?
It means the following. We demand this. If you do not give us this, we will conquer you. This is direct address to aggression. This is imminent threat to the security of the region. All of us keep silent. Nobody would like to react.
Ladies and Gentlemen,
Once again I would like to stress. We are in favour of opening of all transportation, all communication means, but without any sovereign character logic, because it undermines the very basics of UN Charter.
Unfortunately, Mr Rafael HUSEYNOV left this Hemicycle. A couple of days ago I said that this Hemicycle is not only for speaking, but also for the listening. I think you should be here and listen. When you are comparing the situation in Shushi with Strasburg, just walking on the streets, try to see that each and every street has two names, because this country respects the people who live there, who lived here.
You will see French and German naming of the streets, on the plaques.
What's happened in Shushi? You are calling after these years of "occupation"; you destroy this. We renewed the mosque, an ancient and very important mosque in Shushi. What is Shushi now? Nobody would like to go there to visit it. Churches are destroyed. The name "Shushi" in Armenian is destroyed.
Madam ARPADARAI, we have more than 38 POWs in your prisons. How many times have you visited them? How many times have you said to your leadership, to your family state that they should be released not only because of a trilateral statement but because of the Geneva Convention? Because those are the values of these organisations, and we would like to be a pillar of this organisation. I understood that all of you are sick and tired of these discussions, but we have people, live people, who are each day under the threat to being tortured in Azerbaijani prison and nobody would react to it. Sometimes I think that I'm speaking and nobody listens to me.
Thank you. I'm sorry for being so emotional.
Montenegro, NR, President of the Assembly
11:37:47
Thank you.
The next speaker is Mr Vlad BATRÎNCEA. I do not see him in the hemicycle.
So we move on to the next speaker, Mr Hayk MAMIJANYAN.
Mister Hayk MAMIJANYAN, you have the floor.
Thank you, honourable Chair, ladies and gentlemen,
We all know that there was a Stone Age, a Golden Era, etc. I do think that now we are living in the "Rubber Era" of European values. They bend, they fold, at the pleasure of politicians and yesterday's discussion regarding the UK government's reaction to the decision of ECHR proves that.
Here are some more effects: the European Parliament voted four documents urging the importance of the immediate return of POWs' inadmissible social terror, i.e. leaving the people of Artsakh without gas supply in terms of severe winter, pointing the aggressor of a 40-day war and it had no consequences for the COE member State.
Dear lady, you were calling my motherland, the historic Azerbaijani territory. One of your colleagues in Milli Majilis was already preparing the right for Azerbaijani for a new aggression regarding the corridor. And Mister Mr Rafael HUSEYNOV, we are not revanchists. We are patriots. More than that, no one speaks about the fact that a COE member State occupied the internationally recognised sovereign territory of Armenia and just refuses to leave.
There are some other facts regarding the internal politics of my country. For example, less than one month ago, police brutally beat and used stun grenades on the peaceful protesters on the doorsteps of the EU Embassy in Yemen. And I am not speaking figuratively, I am speaking literally, on the doorstep of the EU Embassy in Yemen.
Journalists and oppositional MPs were not allowed to attend an event regarding the freedom of speech. No, you heard it correctly: journalists were not allowed to attend an event regarding freedom of speech and the EU officials back then in my country were attending that event.
Hate speech was so much accumulated by the government in my country that people were killed and the motivation was really political – extremely political. There was a tape that went viral when two people, the ex-president and the current president of the highest judicial body, discussed how they are going to fabricate cases against the opposition leaders.
So, the reason for these disasters are populists and dictators and the first one changed into dictators very fast. And this is a pandemic and we have to fight it tooth and nail, just while we were fighting Covid-19.
So, ladies and gentlemen, I was told that values are rock solid. I refuse to believe that Europe has set a blind eye on democracy and human rights. I refuse to believe that Europe has forgotten the right of self-determination which is simply a right to live for the people of Nagorno-Karabakh. Europe used to be a flagman of Christian democratic values, even if you decided to abandon that flag, we are going to wave it proudly because it is our cross to bear.
Thank you.
Montenegro, NR, President of the Assembly
11:41:59
Thank you.
The next speaker is Mr Mehmet Mehdi EKER, you have the floor.
A point of order.
Just 1 minute.
30 seconds, can I start?
Madam, you have a point of order.
Take care that it is a point of order.
A point of order.
The trilateral statement Clause 9 of the Republic of Armenia guarantees safety of transport links between the western regions of the Republic of Azerbaijan and the Nakchivan Autonomous Republic, signed by prime minister Mr Nikol Pashinyan.
I was just being accused of making some kind of - I don't know claims - so this is signed by prime minister Nikol Pashinyan, so before saying something, please read it and then say it.
Thank you.
Thank you very much Ms Nigar ARPADARAI.
What I wanted to say is this was not a point of order, it was a personal statement you are entitled - sorry, please sit down, I will explain to you.
You had the right to take the floor, I gave you the floor. I am only telling you that this was not a point of order, this was a personal statement. You are entitled to do so, and you were given the floor.
Now we continue the debate.
The next on our list is Mr Mehmet Mehdi EKER from Türkiye. You have the floor, sir.
Dear colleagues, I would like to make a brief talk about the freedom of movement, which is an important condition for the free development of individuals and the enjoyment of many other rights.
Unfortunately, you observe that some member States abuse the Schengen System by imposing restrictive procedures for Turkish citizens, as well as other non-EU citizens. Excessively long bureaucratic procedures and unexplained visa denials, curtail the enjoyment of the freedom of movement.
This is incompatible with the European Convention of Human Rights and in violation of the rulings of the Strasbourg Court.
Moreover, abuse of the Schengen System reverses the effects of fair trade and economic relations. For this reason, the Turkish delegation has initiated to prepare a motion for resolution which aims at addressing the shortcomings in the system and the abuse of the system. The purpose is to identify the problem and to help resolve it so that non-EU citizens of the Council of Europe could enjoy the freedom of movement and other subsequent rights to the fullest possible extent.
Thank you for your cooperation. Thank you, colleagues. Thank you, President.
Thank you, Mehmet, for your contribution.
Next in the debate I call Mr Erkin GADIRLI from Azerbaijan.
Erkin, you have the floor.
Thank you, Mister Chairman.
Dear colleagues,
Initially I had something else to say in mind, but having heard what our Armenian and Azerbaijani colleagues said this morning, I can't help but to answer some of those.
Many years ago I promised to myself not to be engaged in disputes of this kind. I kept loyal to my self-imposed obligations.
I've seen a lot. I participated in many debates which turned out to be verbal battles between Armenians and Azerbaijanis in many places in Europe, in different formats, as an academician, as an opposition member... Then I just dropped out, and I said that I would never participate again in that.
And even here, this is my third year of membership in this honourable Assembly, I've never allowed to make any comment on Armenia, on Karabakh. Only once when the resolution on the humanitarian consequences of the conflict was discussed, I opposed some of the amendments made by honourable members of the Armenian delegation, but those were legal arguments.
I simply call to all our Armenian friends, and also Azerbaijani friends, to stop abusing the time of our colleagues.
Maybe we could just sit together, you and us, no mediators, somewhere, in a very relaxed atmosphere, and talk about the issues that disturb us. Just you and us. I mean, it's just a wish, because again, this tends to have the same results over and over again.
There's a term I once came across many years ago in the Harvard Business Review. I liked the terminology, the definition, so much that I memorised it. The term is called "skilled incompetence". The definition is as follows: skilled incompetence is a situation where people are very good at doing things which tend to have unhappy circumstances even though they seem to be the right thing to do.
Dear Armenians, you and us have become masters of skilled incompetence. We waste our time in useless verbal battles. Let us just sit in a friendly environment and talk without mediators.
Thank you.
Thank you, Mister Erkin GADIRLI.
Next in the debate I call Mr Markus WIECHEL from Sweden.
Marcus you have the floor - but Mr Markus WIECHEL has left the building, like Elvis did before him.
So we go to the next speaker on our list: Ms Sevinj FATALIYEVA from Azerbaijan. You have the floor.
Thank you, Mister Chairman.
Ladies and Gentlemen,
Today the topic of green energy resources is of interest to the whole world. They talk about it in the news and environmentalists urged the heads of the countries to switch to green technologies as soon as possible in order to stop the climate crisis.
Many countries, including the European Union, have already begun to implement their own Green Deal programmes, where renewable energy sources play a key role.
Since the start of the pandemic, the global economy has stagnated, which contributed to the growth of renewable energy production by 70% percent against the backdrop of an overall drop in electricity demand by 5%. This clearly demonstrates the increasing role of alternative energy resources in the future.
Last year alone, the share of energy produced by renewable sources increased by 5% and then in the next five years an increase of 50% is expected. Already by 2025, it's expected that that green energy will outstrip the volume of electricity generated by burning coal in terms of reproduction.
Today, my country Azerbaijan is making a targeted transition to renewable energy sources. The development of renewable energy is a priority to our country, and it's certainly impossible to quickly switch from traditional methods of generating electricity to environmentally-friendly ones, immediately abandoning traditional energy sources.
Azerbaijan has adopted a strategy for smooth transition from traditional methods to new ones while maintaining a reasonable proportion and realistic pace. There is great potential in the territories liberated from occupation. We all know that during the period of occupation for 30 years the Armenian side destroyed the entire infrastructure, all the buildings, our historical and religious monuments on the lands that were under occupation at that time. There are numerous documents and photos proving this.
They also destroyed more than 30 hydroelectric power plants in the Kalbajar and Lachin regions. We have already started large-scale work on the liberated lands and paid great attention to the electric power industry. The alternative energy potential of the liberated territories of Azerbaijan includes almost all types of renewable energy sources, including hydro, solar, wind, and geothermal.
25% of Azerbaijan's drinking water sources are concentrated in Karabakh, which gives grounds to talk about the future hydropower potential of Karabakh.
The energy supply of Karabakh will be provided by renewable energy sources. Four small hydropower plants have already been put into operation on the liberated lands and five more will start operating in the near future. The goal of the Azerbaijani government is to completely transform the region into a green energy zone by 2050 as well as to reduce carbon dioxide emissions by 40%.
By 2030 renewable energy sources are expected to account for 30% of Azerbaijan's electricity generation, and it's estimated that the potential of renewable energy sources in Azerbaijan is 37 thousand megawatts, of which about 10 000 were made public after the liberation of the country's territory.
The energy policy of the Azerbaijani government will allow our state to achieve its commitment under the Paris climate agreement to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 35% by 2030.
Ladies and Gentlemen,
In conclusion I would say that clean energy is a way to healthy environment, it is a way to our future, and we all should make our energy strategies to become environmentally friendly.
Thank you.
Thank you very much - sorry I was doing business - in the end Mr Vlad BATRÎNCEA asked me a question about participating in the debate and we will accommodate you, but at the end of the list.
Now I will first give the floor to Ms Konul NURULLAYEVA from Azerbaijan. You have the floor.
Thank you, Mister President, for the floor.
Today, unfortunately, we are living in a world where there are several active, ongoing armed conflicts. Sexual abuse and other human rights violations committed against women are considered inevitable during and after war times.
Azerbaijan is also one of those countries that experienced all of the negative sides of the armed conflict. Over the past 30 years, thousands of Azerbaijani women have suffered or become refugees as a result of the First and Second Karabakh wars. However, after the liberation of Azerbaijani lands as a result of the 44-day war, a new era was started in our region. Now, integration and co-operation are central to Azerbaijan's vision about the future of the South Caucasus and this strategy adheres to all universal values and international standards.
Azerbaijan supports peace for the sake of regional stability and Azerbaijan women also actively participate in post-conflict peacemaking and reconstruction processes.
Dear colleagues, firstly, I firmly believe that the establishment and development of women's organisations in post-conflict countries will reduce the challenges faced by women in these societies. Additionally, I am convinced that efficient transitional justice institutions should be formed, as well, in which female leaders can meet to debate peace processes, share their gender-specific experiences and introduce special mechanisms in order to address mentioned issues.
Furthermore, international organisations must arrange national discussions and cross-border interactions with female war victims to provide legal and technical guidance and study the core causes of a particular conflict. In this regard, I would like to emphasise the importance of the global forum organised in Baku and attended by representatives from 50 countries and significant international organisations. In this year's forum, which was named "Threat to the Global Order" the prospects for peace were once again discussed and, of course, since we were talking about peace and security on a global scale, the issue of women's security was also a direct part of these discussions.
Dear colleagues, in conclusion, I would like to mention that providing justice and security to women and girls in post-conflict societies will be highly feasible only – and only – if we really have the desire to solve this problem.
Dear colleagues, only peace brings the world together.
Thank you for your attention.
Thank you, dear Konul.
Next in the debate I call Mr Samad SEYIDOV from Azerbaijan. You have the floor.
Thank you, Mister President.
Not so easy to speak when our colleagues from Armenia try to create such an unacceptable atmosphere for this Assembly.
Actually, today we have discussed a little bit that initiative which was proposed by my fellow friend; to sit together with the Armenians and to discuss all kinds of questions that are so important and in time.
And I asked you, I appeal not to our Armenian colleagues, but I appeal to the president of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, please, do it.
Enough is enough.
You know somebody is thinking that he is clever, he can present something which nobody knows. I appeal to my Armenian young fellow Mr Eduard AGHAJANYAN. We met each other in Italy and I asked you to sit together here in the hemicycle.
I am still awaiting your response. At the beginning of this session, I said, please, find the courage and come together to sit together with Azerbaijan and discuss and not to mislead this Parliamentary Assembly, to Mr Vladimir VARDANYAN, to Mr Ruben RUBINYAN, and no answer!
You know why? Because they're working not for this Parliamentary Assembly, they're working for you their internal agenda. They try to present themselves as the heroes.
Enough! You lost everything because of this style of behaviour!
My friends and colleagues already mentioned about that. We gave full access to Karabakh to Armenians. We gave permission for Russian peacekeepers to come to our land. We gave a possibility to deliver food, goods, everything to Karabakh, but we still have been waiting possibility to open Zangezur corridor. That's not so fair! To come to us and not allow Azerbaijan to go to Nakhchivan.
Be fair a little bit, Mister VARDANYAN, when you are talking about legal affairs. Why you forget about the millions of refugees? And it's very easy to blame, but it's very difficult to understand your own responsibility.
Please, again I ask you, not to try to mislead this organisation. And again, I appeal to the leadership of the Council of Europe Parliamentary Assembly.
We have known each other for approximately 15 years, and I have always been constructive, and I wanted to be constructive.
Let's sit together. Let's discuss the future of this organisation and our relationship, but not try to change the aims of this organisation into something else.
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much Mr Samad SEYIDOV.
The coffee in the building is of a good quality, so if there is a moment that people want to drink coffee with me, they are more than welcome; I have a presidential credit card so I will pay the coffee, those who come are welcome.
Now the last speaker in the debate is Mr Vlad BATRÎNCEA from the Republic of Moldova. You have the floor.
Thank you, President.
Dear colleagues,
I am grateful to have this opportunity to discuss with you the situation in the Republic of Moldova, my country.
Allow me to inform you that the Republic of Moldova managed, including the support provided by the Council of Europe, to make important steps in the consolidation of democracy and the rule of law, such as strengthening the independence of the judiciary, approving the strategy and the action plan to ensure independence and integrity of the justice sector, tools of the institution to fight corruption and money laundering, adopt the law of NGOs and tools to ensure equal opportunities.
At the same time, it is extremely important to have the changes and reforms to be sure they are not based on politically or geopolitically motivated decisions.
In this context, let me draw your attention to the numerous deviations of the current government from the rule of law. First, limiting the freedom of expression and imposing political control over the TeleRadio-Moldova institution and the Audiovisual Council. Attack on the prosecution system by means of essential legislative amendments which are contrary to the opinions of the Venice Commission. Amendment of essential legislative acts for the function and over the justice system in the absence of a broad consensus and without wide public consultations. Political involvement of the government leaders in individual cases handled by prosecutors or judges; leaking of any dialogue between the central government with opposition and local public authorities; criminal investigations initiated against opposition leaders and persecution of the opposition.
Taking this into full consideration, let me highlight the critical importance of implementing reforms to ensure the independence of the judiciary, the prosecutor system and the central electoral commission. To eliminate political control over the media, the Audiovisual Council reforms can only be implemented, provided there is a broad political and social consensus in society.
Therefore, we ask you to, for the great involvement and to strictly monitor the actions of the government of the Republic of Moldova in order to return the Moldovan authorities to normality and to stop the numerous deviations committed and not admit a dictatorship and the creation of extremely dangerous precedents for the stability of democracy and the rule of law as well as in order.
Thank you.
Thank you, Mister Vlad BATRÎNCEA.
This concludes the list of speakers in the free debate.
Thank you very much for participating in the debate, and for the way of proposing your ideas in this debate.
We now turn to the progress report of the Bureau.
This morning the Bureau has proposed several references to the Committees. They are set out in the progress report that you can find in Document 15550 and Addendum 3.
These references must be submitted for ratification by the Assembly in accordance with Rule 26.3.
Are there any objections to these references?
If not, then we continue.
Our next business is to consider the changes proposed in the membership of committees. They are set out in document Commissions (2022) Addendum 2.
Are the proposed changes of the membership of the Assembly's committees agreed to?
They are agreed to.
I now propose that the other decisions in the progress report be ratified.
Are there any objections?
I don't see any.
Now I go to page 12.
Thank you very much.
Life is so easy over here.
We have now come to the end of our business.
I would like to thank all members of the Assembly, particularly rapporteurs of committees, for their hard work during this Part-Session.
I would also like to thank the Vice-presidents who chaired during this part-session: Ms Edite ESTRELA, Mr John HOWELL, Mr Darko KAEVSKI, Ms Elvira KOVÁCS, Mr Armin LASCHET, Mr Zsolt NÉMETH, Ms Ria OOMEN-RUIJTEN, Mr Mihail POPSOI, Ms Ingjerd SCHOU, Ms Maja VUKIĆEVIĆ and Mr Ahmet YILDIZ.
Thanks a lot to them for contributing to the work of this Assembly.
I would like to thank all colleagues because I think, overall, the atmosphere during this week was sometimes heated, but I think almost always constructive. We did not have incidents in the hemicycle which I appreciate very much, and it makes life for the President far easier.
I would now also like to thank the staff and our interpreters who are here with us, both permanent and temporary, who have worked hard, really hard, to make the Part-Session a success. Sometimes we think that we are working hard, but if we look around the walls, then you see the real hard-working people. Thank you very much. Let's give them a round of applause.
Dear colleagues,
The fourth part of the 2022 Session will be held from 10 - 14 October 2022.
I declare the third part of the 2022 Session of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe closed.
